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We cover all MG & Rover cars, We are the MG Owners Club & Rover Owners club, combined in one, from Rover 75 to MGZT, from Rover 800 to MGB, we are here for all your MG Rover MGR cars
 

How To's

Battery info,

Unread postby COLVERT » Sun Jan 11, 2015 4:39 pm

#80
COLVERT
The HAPPY biker.

Think I'll plonk this in here. Might be handy for someone.


Rate of battery charging.----The main thing is to keep the battery temperature low. ( Around bath water temperature. ) Much hotter than this and the water content will start to get boiled off.

In the days when batteries had filler caps you could look inside to see what was happening. 20 amps for any length of time and you'd see fierce action as bubbles came up past the plates.

The regulator is there to stop this happening. Fast chargers that are some times used by garages can drastically shorten the life of batteries. ( Avoid fast chargers like the plague. )

With the latest modern batteries the fluid levels drop but can no longer be checked. Also paste can be forced out of the lead/antimony grids and fall to the bottom of the battery.

None of this does the battery any good.

RE---- Charging rates and capacity.

A batteries voltage does not change much from full to empty. Somewhere around one volt is normal unless the battery has been subjected to deep discharge.

Capacity however goes through an enormous change.

The analogy of two water tanks describes it perfectly.

Two tanks 3 feet high.

Tank 1 being a foot diameter.

Tank 2 being 10 feet diameter.

With reference to a battery the pressure in both is identical. ( Read DEPTH as VOLTAGE. )

The volume/ capacity in tank 2 is vastly greater than in tank 1 even though the depth/ voltage is identical.

Connect the tanks together and there is no flow from one to the other.

Raise the level in either tank and water will start to transfer from the higher to the lower. ( battery 12 volts---Charger 14 volts. Current starts to flow. Battery charges. )

Batteries------Around 12 volts discharged. Apply a higher voltage such as the alternator supplies ( !4.4 volts approx ) and current starts to flow into the battery increasing its capacity. ( Amount of electricity stored within it and available for work. ) During this time the battery internal voltage slowly increases and the current flow slowly decreases. The battery temperature starts to drop.

14.4 volts translates into around 5 amps roughly.

Any voltage increase above this will increase the current supply in proportion.

The higher the voltage the hotter the battery will get. ( Avoid garage fast chargers like the plague. )

A discharged Diesel engine battery will take around 30 hours on a standard charger.




Colvert. ------ (cheers)
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Adroitness and sensitivity in dealing with others or with difficult issues ( Tact. ) will always win the war.
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Unread postby Tourerfogey » Sun Jan 11, 2015 6:50 pm

Interesting stuff :)

Perhaps you can answer a question for me:

In the old days, batteries used to become sluggish and deteriorate over a period of time - if your battery was on the way out you'd therefore get some warning before it was completely dead.

Modern batteries, when they reach the end of their life just seem to die without warning.

Is there any reason for this or have I just been unlucky?

Ta

TF
It's a K Series . . . . keep topping it up . . . . it'll be fine . . . . . .
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Unread postby COLVERT » Sun Jan 11, 2015 7:11 pm

You might just have been unlucky.

The battery on my R75 lasted over 8 years. However fitted from new batteries seem to last a bit longer than those bought second time round.

Taking a little bit of care ( See the info in my post above ) will make any battery last that bit longer.

Most folk just fit and forget.
Live long and prosper.

Adroitness and sensitivity in dealing with others or with difficult issues ( Tact. ) will always win the war.
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Unread postby Borg Warner » Sun Jan 11, 2015 8:44 pm

Very useful Col.

Do love the water tank analogy, have used that myself a number of times to explain leccy flow.

A possible reason for modern batteries to fail more quickly may be that in the good old days the understanding of them was not quite as good as it is today? So they were made with a lot more tolerance? Bit like the Victorian engineering practices I suggest. Modern ones are built to a cost standard rather than an engineering one, hence they fail more quickly?

Mine lasted for over 7 years on the ZT, finally giving up in December. Despite having it on charge on my Accumate for over a day it wouldn't hold its charge, struggling to turn it over even after driving some 15 miles. New one seems good at present. Yuasa.

There are 2x6volt on the B and I have these on the charger constantly. Fired the beast up yesterday, after cleaning the plugs and getting them warmed up, took a few turns as you can imagine. Let it sit there for about 15 -20mins (savouring the aroma of 97Ron in the garage) turned it off plugged charger back in and it went from charging (red) to charged (green) in about 20mins, alternator works then?

V=E-IxR (clap) (clap) (clap)

How come you know so much about them?

Gary M.
MG Stands for its self and not Morris Garages. As CK said "...there was already one Morris Garages, how could there be two?"
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Unread postby COLVERT » Sat Dec 17, 2016 4:59 pm

Hi there Gary.

Sorry about being nearly TWO YEARS late with my reply to your post.--- (panic) (panic) (panic)


I had a friend who owned a small battery company.

My profession at the time was Tool Maker in an engineering factory.

I made some tools for him to use to make battery components.

These were to make plate grids, pillars and link plates.
From that I learned in detail what went into a battery and how to charge and maintain one.

Hence my battery posts. I have put even more info into a thread on the owners club if you would like to read more detail and what happens chemically as a battery charges and discharges.

Will put to rest all those fibs that garages tell you such as your battery is sulphated up Sir and it's Dead.

They all sulphate up cos that's how they work.--- :-D

It's what kind of sulphate that's important.--- ;-)
Live long and prosper.

Adroitness and sensitivity in dealing with others or with difficult issues ( Tact. ) will always win the war.
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